John Davis

Joined

• started 18 topics
• posted 407 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by John Davis

• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I think that for what most people are doing there are a number of other ways. Lets take what people call the paedophile database.

  I think the way that Zalkin has gone about it by going through the courts is the proper way of doing it and Watchtower has been mostly complying with the orders, while he doesn't like the level of names and personal details being removed and there is a protective order, it is going through the correct channels. Or how the ARC was able to get the whole Australian record, and they turned it over to the appropriate law enforcement agencies that could do something about it. I think going through legal means is much better in the long run.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  JP: And i think that if you were ready to deal with those consequences than you did what you thought was right. Does everyone think like you and feel that if they break a law in exposing the Watchtower and then face some negative consequences that it is unfair because Watchtower gets away, with what they feel are crimes. I was watching a video of Kim and Mikey and they said that if Watchtower wants to make them a martyr by someone filing a copyright infringement with YouTube, the way that they made it sound like is that even though they know that they could be breaking the law that because they are doing it for the right reason that they must be in the right no matter what. If you willfully break the law you're not a martyr you have broken the law. There is a saying that "History is written by the victors" and I also think that if you think if you are a hero or a criminal is based on your perspective. During the American Revolution, every founding father was a terrorist and a traitor to the crown, but they viewed themselves as heroes. But they were ready to face the consequences of their actions. So if you're ready to face those consequences and not just say oh I am a martyr then good for you and more power to you. I just don't think it is personally worth risking a criminal conviction when there are other ways.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  OK jp1692. I think the notion of fighting fire with fire is the wrong idea. That is basically how gang wars start, you do something illegal to me so I am going to turn around and do something illegal to you. I listened to Rick Fearon and his experience recording his Judicial Committee Hearing and he was asked isn't lying to them wrong since he professes to be an honourable Christian, his response was something similar that sometimes you have to lie to learn the truth. And I am not trying to pick on him, but I think if you are complaining about if someone is lying to you and is being legalistic to you, and you turn around and do exactly the same thing to them, are you really any better. BTW someone said that they don't respect your rights to have a lawyer a witness in a JC, civil rights are extended by governments not by private organizations. It is the right and moral thing to do but it is not a legal right to anyone.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I am sorry. Thank you, everyone, for your comments. I will thank everyone for their comments more often. I am very sorry.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I don't respond after asking for people's opinions because I am not trying to say someone is right or wrong. Some people don't have a problem with all of those scenarios, while others have a problem with some and not others. It is everyone's opinions.

  BTW: I never said that it is always illegal to record someone without their permission even in private locations. Even in the US, it varies by state, some are two party consent and others are 1 party consent.
• 
  103

  Using Illegal Means for Righteous Activism

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i wanted to get people's opinion on something.

  how do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the watchtower.

  there have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with elders and with branch offices or at meetings.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I wanted to get people's opinion on something. How do you feel when people use illegal means while performing their activism to shed light on the Watchtower. There have been people who have illegally recorded conversations with Elders and with Branch offices or at meetings. They have done this in states or countries that require two party consent to record conversations and where the penalties can be a criminal prosecution. The use of copyrighted material is also illegal and can lead to civil penalties. There has even been talk of hacking into Watchtower's computer system to download the paedophile database or other information, which would be a violation of the law in a major way, and even talk about it could be considered conspiracy to commit a crime.

  I understand the desire behind it is to bring justice to the people who have been hurt by Watchtower and to protect other people, but do you think it is right to willfully break the law to get this accomplished?
• 
  43

  New Announcement At The 2017 - DF'd People To Sit At The Back Of The Hall

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone else heard this?

  a poster on another thread said it's a new rule brought in at this years convention.. last year they were told to shun even non df people and now this?

  a religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  The direction on clapping is dignified spontaneous clapping. Not everyone needs to clap. Some people maybe still hurt by what that person did, would you clap if someone defrauded you and they were reinstated? No.
• 
  3

  Signing petitions in other countries or writing to other countries inquires.

  by John Davis in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i am seeing this petition and call for people to write to the iicsa so that they will investigate watchtower.

  i think that this part is good if the person who signs the petition or writes the letter is a citizen or a resident of that country.

  i have a problem when people who are citizens or residents of other countries do this when they write into an inquiry like the arc or sign petitions.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  I am seeing this petition and call for people to write to the IICSA so that they will investigate Watchtower. I think that this part is good if the person who signs the petition or writes the letter is a citizen or a resident of that country. I have a problem when people who are citizens or residents of other countries do this when they write into an inquiry like the ARC or sign petitions. The government that is looking into this answers to their citizens, not to other people around the world, and they should only listen to their own citizens. I had just the same issue when Watchtower had JWs from around the world write into Russian Government Officials during their campaign, each country needs to only listen to their citizens and people should not attempt to influence other countries governments.
• 
  43

  New Announcement At The 2017 - DF'd People To Sit At The Back Of The Hall

  by pale.emperor in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone else heard this?

  a poster on another thread said it's a new rule brought in at this years convention.. last year they were told to shun even non df people and now this?

  a religion cant force someone where to plonk their ass surely?.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  Kingdom Halls are private property, the owners of that property can restrict your entry and actions within that property. If they wish they can charge you with trespassing.
• 
  51

  I was impressed by part of today's symposium entitled ' Safeguard your children from what is evil'

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  well i have to give credit where credit is due.

  it was the part of today's symposium - build a house that will endure.

  the part i was most impressed with was 'safeguard your children from "what is evil".

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  John Davis

  Sparrowdown:

  From the Austrailian Royal Commission own website, for a true and accurate copy of the letter.

  http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/exhibits/10908a67-70c5-4103-94cc-dac096fdb585/case-study-54,-march-2017,-sydney

  It is entitled Letter from Watchtower Australia to All Bodies of Elders regarding Protecting Minors From Abuse

  ID: WAT.0024.001.0001

  The releveant parts:

  18. Direction from the Service Department to the elders will include restrictions imposed on an individual’s activities within the congregation, on his participation in the field ministry, and on his interaction with minors. The elders will be directed to caution the individual never to be alone with a minor, not to cultivate friendships with minors, not to display affection for minors, and so forth. In some cases, the Service Department may specifically direct elders to inform parents of minors within the congregation of the need to monitor their children’s interaction with an individual. If the body of elders has questions about a past case, two elders should be assigned to call the Service Department for direction. The coordinator of the body of elders should ensure that newly appointed elders and elders who move into the congregation are made aware of the Service Department’s direction regarding such individuals.